From rlderaud@anet.rockwell.com Robert L. De raud

A smallish dilemma, offered for the perusal of the Net Gods:

I shot my first silhouette match this Saturday (LASC: fine, friendly people - rest assured I will pick their brains on this subject also). This was big-bore, using what they described as their "range" gun: 10" in 7mm TCU (I *think* that's what they said; the bullets were very pointy and looked more like the .300 Whisper pictures in the T/C catalog. In case you can't tell, I'm a newbie to center-fire rifles :-)). Did OK, I guess: 19/40 in standing conventional class, with the help of a *very* good spotter.

My own Contender has only one barrel so far: 14" .22LR match with a 2.5X scope, which seems to put it in some exotic space-gun class. (At my age, I need either the scope to help my eyes or a bench to help my arms, preferably both :-))

So my question is: what the hell do I buy for barrel #2?

My preference would be .357Mag, since I've got that in a revolver and am thinking about a carbine. I'm told the 158 grain factory loads are too lame to knock over the rams at 200yds.

..44Mag? Supposedly too much recoil to be enjoyable. I shoot .357 and .45ACP regularly for bowling pins, no problem; the only .44 I've ever shot was a Desert Eagle (which has very little recoil anyway), using the owner's reloads of unknown (to me) strength. Is this really a problem?

I assume that .223 (my next choice) is too light a bullet. Besides, I'd want that evil long-barrel scoped setup for this - I don't see any point in a 10" open-sight .223.

And, no, I don't reload (should have said THAT up-front)...I'm just not ready for yet another learning curve and yet another pile of stuff in my garage. Any suggestions? Or have I just talked myself out of big-bore silhouette :-)?

Lee

From N.Jessup@its.amc.edu.au

Morning Lee

Did OK, I guess: 19/40 in standing conventional >class, >with the help of a *very* good spotter.

Pretty good for a first up score in standing, congratulations. 7mmTCU is made from necking up 223 brass. 300Whisper can be made from 223 brass too but it has to be shortened, more common to make it out of 221Fireball brass (I think that's right)

>My own Contender has only one barrel so far: 14" .22LR match with a 2.5X >scope, >which seems to put it in some exotic space-gun class. (At my age, I need >either >the scope to help my eyes or a bench to help my arms, preferably both :-))

You could use it in Field Pistol Any Sight if it was a 10" barrel. I use a 10" Match barrel with a 6x rifle scope. Works great but knockdown on the 100yd rams is marginal. I figure I'm not that good anyway so I may as well give myself a good chance at the closer targets and rams are a bonus.

>So my question is: what the hell do I buy for barrel #2?

A couple of the guys at our club use 357Mag but it is like the .22 in Field Pistol, marginal at 200yds. One chap uses a 357Max which is more reliable at the long range. I use a 10" 30Herret for production and a 14" Hunter in 7x30Waters for Unlimited. I'm only using 125grn pills in the 30H at the moment and haven't decided if I need to go up to 150grn or not. Bit more development I think.

>.44Mag? Supposedly too much recoil to be enjoyable. I shoot .357 and .45ACP >regularly for bowling pins, no problem; the only .44 I've ever shot was a >Desert >Eagle (which has very little recoil anyway), using the owner's reloads of >unknown (to me) strength. Is this really a problem?

I've just picked up a SuperBlackHawk 10" 44Mag for production Revolver. The consensus at the club seems to be use the big 300grn cast projectile and don't try and drive them at warp speed, just lob em out to the ram and the weight will do the rest. There are only a couple of TC's in 44Mag at our club because they are so muck lighter than the revolvers they buck more. If you had been following the thread in this list you may already have an idea about that. I guess it comes down to your ability to handle recoil. I don't handle it very well, hence the Hunter barrel for the 7x30.

>I assume that .223 (my next choice) is too light a bullet. Besides, I'd want >that evil long-barrel scoped setup for this - I don't see any point in a 10" >open-sight .223.

One of my mates has a 10" 223 and it will punch a hole through the target but not knock it over. You won't be real popular if you start drilling holes in the targets. ;-)

>And, no, I don't reload (should have said THAT up-front)...I'm just not ready >for yet another learning curve and yet another pile of stuff in my garage. Any >suggestions? Or have I just talked myself out of big-bore silhouette :-)? > I don't think so, how easy is 357Max ammo to buy over there?

Hope some of my rambling helped a bit.

cherio

Hi Lee,

Thought I would add my 2 cents to your dilemma... It's been a few years since I shot in a silhouette match (bachelor degree's definitely get in the way of real life!), but I'll tell you my thoughts anyway.

I imagine that 7 TCU was what they were shooting. It was very popular from what I have seen and seems to be a good compromise between needed power and recoil.

BTW, 19/40 is very good for a standing beginner!

I agree that 357 is on the light side. I've seen too many rams that were hit and didn't go down, and that with some pretty heavy loads. I haven't shot the 44, but another thread on this list is talking about excessive recoil in the 44 Contender.

As far as 223 is concerned, I suspect you may have a problem with the range master in shooting that caliber. The small, fast bullet does excessive damage to targets I understand. At the range I shot at, they always had a sample chicken that had been shot with a centerfire 22 that was severely dimpled. (At the other extreme, I shot a pig with some 220 grain bullets from my 375 JDJ and didn't cause anymore damage than any other typical loads...)

The one centerfire cartridge that I personally have experience with was the 7-30 Waters. It shoots extremely flat (no sight changes between chickens and rams on a 'normal' day) and wasn't too bad for recoil. I shot a state match (60 rounds) with no adverse affects. But there is definitely more recoil and muzzle blast (to affect your fellow shooters) than the 7 TCU.

Last I knew, the 7-30 was only being factory loaded by Federal (remember this info is a few years old), so that would take care of the reloading issue. But I suspect it would be pretty expensive to shoot silhouettes with that factory ammo.

Don't know if that helps at all, but that is some of what I learned in my silhouette years!!

Good luck, Pat

From ricpit@mindspring.com Richard A. Pitman, Jr.

Subject: Re: T/C Contender for silhouette

If you did reload, your choices would be much greater. However, the .30-30 Win. or .35 Rem. barrels do a fine job on the rams with factory ammo. So does the .44 Mag. but if you are recoil sensitive, the factory stuff is pretty uncomfortable to shoot without some good rubber grips, like Pachmayers. Also, if you can find one, the .41 Mag does a great job. I have also seen some guys shoot .357 Mag with 158 grain bullets do well, but they are iffy on the rams. The .357 Max also does a great job, if you can find one. I hope that this is helpful to you.

Happy shooting, Rick (ricpit@atl.mindspring.com)

From mikew@hpbs701.boi.hp.com Michael Weiss

> So my question is: what the hell do I buy for barrel #2?

So what's wrong with a 7mmTCU? You did great with it the first time. Do you reload? If you don't reload then 7mmTCU is out, since you will not be able to find it in a factory load.

> My preference would be .357Mag, since I've got that in a revolver > and am thinking about a carbine. I'm told the 158 grain factory > loads are too lame to knock over the rams at 200yds.

..357 Mag is only marginal in the silhouette game. Not enough terminal energy at 200 meters to take down the rams. .357 Maximum is a good one with 180 grain projectile. You've gotta be a reloader for this one too because factory loads are not plentiful and very hard to find.

> .44Mag? Supposedly too much recoil to be enjoyable. I shoot .357 and

..44 Mag hurts to shoot, especially forty or eighty rounds a day.

> I assume that .223 (my next choice) is too light a bullet. Besides,

..223 has too much velocity. The bullet is so small and so fast that it will often penetrate the steel silhouette targets. Silhouette clubs frown on welding up the holes in their steel targets.

You might try 30-30 Winchester out of a 14-inch barrel or maybe the 35 Remington. 7-30 Waters is another good one but you've got to reload for that one as well.

From mikew@hpbs701.boi.hp.com Michael Weiss

You might try the .41 Magnum if you can find one. T/C no longer makes this caliber barrel but there are still some to be found in the used market. I picked up a 10-inch barrel last year and have had great success with it on silhouettes.

The 220 grain bullet tumbles the rams with no problem and the recoil is nothing like the .44 Magnum. Recoil is more like the .357 magnum. The .41 Magnum is also readily available in factory loads since you do not reload.

From Nigel Jessup N.Jessup@its.amc.edu.au

Afternoon Herb

>>What companies DO make approved contender barrels for silhouette-- only TC?

Depends on the category. The production classes (largest) are only allowed to have TC original barrels. TC's are unique in this in that they can at least use different ORIGINAL barrels. In the unlimited classes just about anything goes so long as it is under 15" long. Have a look at my 350mm barrel I made up for my high Standard as an example of an unlimited (.22lr) gun. http://www.amc.edu.au/staff/nj/hs.html

>BTW it is my understanding that fox ridge and TC are owned by the >same person. > Don't know about the relationship but our IHMSA Aust Director told me they are illegal for production.

Cherio

From sfware@bright.net Stephen F. Ware

Under IHMSA rules, the only barrels that can be used in Production class are those that are stamped as coming from T/C only. Fox Ridge barrels (even in calibers that are out of production from T/C) can be used in Unlimited only.

All other barrels (Bullberry, etc.) are also classified as Unlimited barrels.

There has been much conversation among IHMSA members at matches (but not to my knowledge with IHMSA officers) about the fact that Fox Ridge is really the T/C custom shop; therefore, those barrels should be allowed into Production (if they are the proper length), but no change has been made nor is it expected to be.

Hope this clears up the IHMSA side of the story.