From: bmillin@ix.netcom.com (Brian Millin)

I have just ventured into reloading bottleneck cartridges. Lots of pistol, but no rifle. So - a few questions, if you can help.

I started with .223 for my Sporter and TC Carbine. The sporter was easy - it has to fit in the magazine, so the standard OAL of 2.220 was fine.

Time for the T/C. I sized a once fired Federal case, placed a 52 grain BTHP in the neck, and chambered it. It chambered & extracted easily. Measured out at 2.335 - barely seating the bullet. If I want to start around .005 off the lands, that gives me 2.330 as a starting point.

That seems awfully long. Anybody have a T/C barrel that measures out this far? This is a hollow point - a pointed bullet would really be out there. I know you measure off the ogive, but jeez. A Federal 55g FMJ measures out to 2.215, and groups well (sub MOA) in the 16" barrel.

Also - I could use some advise on adjusting the size die. It is a new Hornady die set - the directions are a bit sketchy. It says to bring it down to contact the shell plate - does it matter what shell plate? (Dillon 550)

The OAL of the cartridge depends on the bullet used. In the TC's you don't have to worry about recoil upsetting your next round. So, as long as your bullets are seated off the lands and they are firmly seated in the neck, you will be OK. Actually with your bullets seated out as far as they can be you are effectively increasing your case capacity. This in turn will lower your chamber pressure in any given load found in your manuals. However, don't load up your case with a little extra powder to compensate. As far as setting up your sizing die goes, you should first smoke the necks of your cases. To do this, put a light coat of oil on your case and heavy coat on the necks. Then put them into the flame end of a candle. This will deposit a layer of soot on your case. Run your case though the resizing die. Adjust the sizing die down until the neck is resized 80-90 %. Try this case out in your chamber. There should be just a slight resistance in closing. This is called a "crush" fit. This is what I've been doing with my .223's.

Sounds like you have a long chamber in that barrel. Seat them out as far as possible, but it is necessary to have enough bullet in the case neck to hold it in place. You won't be able to seat the bullet on the lands -.005" with that bullet, but probably with some of the longer bullets it will work.

>Also - I could use some advise on adjusting the size die. It is a new >Hornady die set - the directions are a bit sketchy. It says to bring it >down to contact the shell plate - does it matter what shell plate? >(Dillon 550) It doesn't matter which shell plate, because they all hold the case rim. There is just as much case above the shell holder whether it is thick or thin. By turning the die down to touch the shell holder, you take the case back to nominal factory specs. You can custom size for your specific chamber by turning the die out some, and then turning it in a little at a time and checking to see if the case will allow the gun to lock up and fire. Keep turning it down until it will lock and fire, about 1/16 turn at a time. The die is now set to size for that particular chamber, but may not work for other chambers. You will probably need to reset the die for each chamber you load for. 

"Richard A. Pitman, Jr." <ricpit@mindspring.com> writes: > > It doesn't matter which shell plate, because they all hold the case > rim. There is just as much case above the shell holder whether it > is thick or thin. By turning the die down to touch the shell > holder, you take the case back to nominal factory specs.

Unfortunately, this is not accurate. Shell holders all hold the rim of the case, yes, but they are not all the same thickness above the rim, and that is where they would be contacting the die. Comparing my RockChucker to my 550B for instance, there is a great deal of difference. The Dillon has a flat shell plate, which the bottom most edge of the die hits if you screw it down far enough. On the RCBS, the shell plate is a single piece, and the die slides past it a good ways before contact is made well inside the case mouth. If I screw the die down to 1/4 turn from max on each press, I get drastically different results.

On a related note, I found that my Contender was very sensitive to resizing. Even the littlest bit too much and the action wouldn't fire, or even not lock up. Unlike a bolt gun, you lack the camming action of the bolt to compress the brass. I found my ideal size by turning the die down 1/4 trn until the action functioned reliably.

Good luck.

sodapop+@andrew.cmu.edu

Brian,

I recently started loading some ammo for a .223 Bullberry barrel, using the data that was very successful in two .223 bolt rifles. Using the identical technique that you employed, my longest OAL was 2.285", just .005" short of your longest, an insignificant difference.

Checking my rifle records, I find that it was the same for the two rifles for that same bullet.

> Also - I could use some advise on adjusting the size die. It is a new > Hornady die set - the directions are a bit sketchy. It says to bring it > down to contact the shell plate - does it matter what shell plate? > (Dillon 550)

Set your die so that it resizes about 95% of the case neck. The Contender, especially in rimless case chamberings, is awfully picky about headspace adjustment. It will fail to fire, at least intermittently, if the headspace clearance is excessive. It will not lock up completely (also causing some misfires) if there is very much headspace interference.

The first firing sets the case dimensions to your particular chamber, and the 95% sizing technique assures that you do not set the shoulder back. My Bullberry has the very tightest chamber that I have ever encountered and my .223 bolt rifle ammo will not chamber in it. For this barrel I must set my sizer die firmly against the shell holder.

On rare occasion, after a number of firings using the 95% technique, one may experience some resistance to chambering. If this should happen (I have had it happen only in a Winchester 94), tweak your sizer die down about 1/16 of a turn at a time until the case will again just chamber. Lock your die there and it is unlikely that you will have to adjust it ever again.

Incidentally, loading so that the bullet is close to the rifling origin will not necessarily provide the most accurate ammunition for your gun. Only trial and error will reveal that. A considerable number of my rifles/loads shoot better when loaded otherwise. I always start out using the close to the lands approach because the majority of my loads shoot best that way - but not a large majority!

God Bless!

Norm

From kevin sedota kjs@aag.com

Can anyone tell me their experiences with the .223 for the contender. I have a 12 inch barrel with the muzzle break topped with a Burris 2-7X scope and I can barely get it to group 1 inch and 50 yards. I've tried bullets from 40 to 55 grains and powders include 4198, RE7, 748 to name a few. I would have thought I could get better accuracy. I get better accuracy with my 10" hornet.

Any experiences would be appreciated.

I usually can get 1" groups at 100 yards with my 14"T/C barrel. I've been using the 45 grain bullets from Sierra over near max charges of H4227. I have a feeling that the barrel can shoot better than I can. I have a 4x Bushnell mounted on it now, but I intend to upgrade the scope with something with greater magnification at some later date.

From dthedens@hpbs2024.boi.hp.com Dave Thedens

I have two barrels chambered for .223 and one for .222 so I guess I could respond. I have found that the seating the bullet out to touch the lands is the best way to get accuracy out of this round. Just remember to back off 5% on the powder because pressure can climb quickly when the bullet does not get that little jump. There are tools that can help you find the seating depth, but a good rule of thumb is to take an empty (unprimed) case and place a bullet in the mouth of the case with the pointy end in the case (i.e. backwards). Then place this into the chamber and close the action. This seats the bullet to touch the lands ('cause you are using the lands to seat the bullet). Don't try it the other way with the pointy end out, because the give of the bullet may deform into the lands and you will be seating out further than necessary. This is your reference bullet. Put this bullet into your press and adjust the seat die until it touches the reference. You can then fine tune for accuracy in and out a few thousands.